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Thread: VB - May it rest in Peace

  1. #1
    Mark Atkinson Guest

    VB - May it rest in Peace


    What a bunch of no hoping developers VB programmers are
    After using VB as a serious dev. Tool since VB2 and the introduction of VBX
    controls
    One thing is clear about the VB comunity most of them are an unqualified
    bunch of hackers
    who have no idea what OOD is.

    Most of them are still figuring out that Option Explicit really isnt a bad
    idea.

    So now Microsoft introduce an advanced VB one that suddenely requires the
    industries least skilled
    and lasiet programmers to think!! To become more professional in their work
    and develop as the rest
    of the skilled developer industry has.

    I really hope the lot of you go and do VBA, the other lowest form of software
    development.

    I for one will be exiting stage left the moment C# is released as a commercial
    product.
    10 years of VB tells me that any language that claims to be modern and yet
    still supports archaine
    structures as optional type checking and line numbers is a dead duck. Good
    riddons.

    Bring on the good times,
    Cheers Mircosoft

  2. #2
    Jim Barber Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    >One thing is clear about the VB comunity most of them are an unqualified
    >bunch of hackers who have no idea what OOD is.


    Sure I do. "Officer Of the Day".

    (ok, back to work now..)
    --jim




  3. #3
    Mike S Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    Yes Sir,

    I _completely_ agree with you. Having more than 10 years of C++, I switched
    to VB for the last 2 years (btw, I'm so ashamed about that, but, you know,
    the market ...). But now seems that we're back in business again!

    Take care everybody,
    Mike

    "Mark Atkinson" <junkData@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:3a72af91$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    > What a bunch of no hoping developers VB programmers are
    > After using VB as a serious dev. Tool since VB2 and the introduction of

    VBX
    > controls
    > One thing is clear about the VB comunity most of them are an unqualified
    > bunch of hackers
    > who have no idea what OOD is.
    >
    > Most of them are still figuring out that Option Explicit really isnt a bad
    > idea.
    >
    > So now Microsoft introduce an advanced VB one that suddenely requires the
    > industries least skilled
    > and lasiet programmers to think!! To become more professional in their

    work
    > and develop as the rest
    > of the skilled developer industry has.
    >
    > I really hope the lot of you go and do VBA, the other lowest form of

    software
    > development.
    >
    > I for one will be exiting stage left the moment C# is released as a

    commercial
    > product.
    > 10 years of VB tells me that any language that claims to be modern and yet
    > still supports archaine
    > structures as optional type checking and line numbers is a dead duck. Good
    > riddons.
    >
    > Bring on the good times,
    > Cheers Mircosoft




  4. #4
    Bob Howell Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace


    Amen Mark. I have been programming in VB for 10 years (or so) as well. There
    are WAY too many marginal or downright incompetent VB "Developers" out there,
    promoting themselves as "experts" (and drawing high rates) just because they
    can drop a couple of text boxes and a button on a VB form and click compile.
    Before VB (and Windows) I developed in COBOL and C and other early OOP languages
    using "traditional" best practices of the time. I use VB not as a RAD tool,
    but to develop sophisticated applications that most of these so-called experts
    would not even begin to understand. I welcome VB.Net (and the other tools)
    because the net (no pun intended) result will be to weed the bad apples out
    of the mix and finally get rid of the bad programming and design. The one
    drawback in the short term; I will no longer be able to go in after the
    "experts" did their damage and be the hero by cleaning up (or rewriting)
    they're garbage.
    "Mark Atkinson" <junkData@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >What a bunch of no hoping developers VB programmers are
    >After using VB as a serious dev. Tool since VB2 and the introduction of

    VBX
    >controls
    >One thing is clear about the VB comunity most of them are an unqualified
    >bunch of hackers
    >who have no idea what OOD is.
    >
    >Most of them are still figuring out that Option Explicit really isnt a bad
    >idea.
    >
    >So now Microsoft introduce an advanced VB one that suddenely requires the
    >industries least skilled
    >and lasiet programmers to think!! To become more professional in their work
    >and develop as the rest
    >of the skilled developer industry has.
    >
    >I really hope the lot of you go and do VBA, the other lowest form of software
    >development.
    >
    >I for one will be exiting stage left the moment C# is released as a commercial
    >product.
    >10 years of VB tells me that any language that claims to be modern and yet
    >still supports archaine
    >structures as optional type checking and line numbers is a dead duck. Good
    >riddons.
    >
    >Bring on the good times,
    >Cheers Mircosoft



  5. #5
    David A. Rothgery Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    Bob Howell <nospam@vbvet.net> wrote:
    >
    > Amen Mark. I have been programming in VB for 10 years (or so) as well. There
    > are WAY too many marginal or downright incompetent VB "Developers" out there,
    > promoting themselves as "experts" (and drawing high rates) just because they
    > can drop a couple of text boxes and a button on a VB form and click compile.
    > Before VB (and Windows) I developed in COBOL and C and other early OOP languages
    > using "traditional" best practices of the time. I use VB not as a RAD tool,
    > but to develop sophisticated applications that most of these so-called experts
    > would not even begin to understand. I welcome VB.Net (and the other tools)
    > because the net (no pun intended) result will be to weed the bad apples out
    > of the mix and finally get rid of the bad programming and design. The one
    > drawback in the short term; I will no longer be able to go in after the
    > "experts" did their damage and be the hero by cleaning up (or rewriting)
    > they're garbage.


    I really like vb.NET, so I'm getting sick of its 'defenders' arguing
    that it's harder to use than VB6, and that this is a good thing. That's
    complete, unadulterated crap.

    In the first place, it's quite possible to use vb.NET without using
    anything that might confuse programmers who haven't had much experience
    or training with OOP. Sure, there are cases where vb.NET code is more
    complex than the equivalent VB6 code, but there are as many cases where
    the vb.NET code is substantially less complex.

    In the second place, I can't think of any way that having _fewer_ users
    would be good for a programming language. A lot of VB programmers today
    don't have Computer Science degrees or a lot of experience, true. But
    y'know what? They still manage to produce a lot of applications that
    work. And a good chunk of those less-than-expert programmers improve
    their skills with every project they work on.

    VB made its mark on the development world by being approachable to
    inexperienced programmers and by making GUI development easy. I don't
    think it has lost that with vb.NET, and I'd be upset with Microsoft if
    it has. Fortunately the Beta seems just as easy to develop in as
    previous versions of VB, even though it's not just like them.

    --
    Dave Rothgery
    Picking nits since 1976
    drothgery@myrealbox.com
    http://drothgery.editthispage.com

  6. #6
    Mike Mitchell Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    On 27 Jan 2001 03:22:57 -0800, "Mark Atkinson" <junkData@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >What a bunch of no hoping developers VB programmers are


    [snip] (because the rest was so awful...)

    Mark, old friend. Before you write some more code, why not learn how
    to string a few meaningful sentences in English together first? Then
    maybe I'd have some confidence in your ability to think through a
    REALLY difficult problem.

    MM

  7. #7
    Jon Ogden Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace


    "David A. Rothgery" <drothgery@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.14dcd7773821a77d98968c@news.devx.com...
    > Bob Howell <nospam@vbvet.net> wrote:


    The usual self-congratulatory mean-spirited and childish cant I've
    already read to much of, to want to quote.

    On the other hand, for the first time, I have actually read the kind of
    opinion that I was expecting to read and hear when I first began looking at
    VB.NET as a choice for my company's systems division. The irony of this
    debate, for me, has been that it has been the irrational gloating at the
    problems the real world was going to have at converting its VB code to .NET
    that has slowly but surely convinced me that the only sane choice is to
    ignore .NET for the next couple-three years and then see what the choices
    are.

    > I really like vb.NET, so I'm getting sick of its 'defenders' arguing
    > that it's harder to use than VB6, and that this is a good thing. That's
    > complete, unadulterated crap.
    >
    > In the first place, it's quite possible to use vb.NET without using
    > anything that might confuse programmers who haven't had much experience
    > or training with OOP. Sure, there are cases where vb.NET code is more
    > complex than the equivalent VB6 code, but there are as many cases where
    > the vb.NET code is substantially less complex.


    David, you are the first one to post any thing in here that makes me want to
    reconsider what I am fast deciding.

    > In the second place, I can't think of any way that having _fewer_ users
    > would be good for a programming language. A lot of VB programmers today
    > don't have Computer Science degrees or a lot of experience, true. But
    > y'know what? They still manage to produce a lot of applications that
    > work. And a good chunk of those less-than-expert programmers improve
    > their skills with every project they work on.


    I expect you'll be flamed by C-Geeks for saying that - in part because they
    may be worried that you are right. They've all been taking great comfort in
    the idea that they won't have to compete with VB any more.

    > VB made its mark on the development world by being approachable to
    > inexperienced programmers and by making GUI development easy. I don't
    > think it has lost that with vb.NET, and I'd be upset with Microsoft if
    > it has. Fortunately the Beta seems just as easy to develop in as
    > previous versions of VB, even though it's not just like them.


    I hope you get a chance and have the time to say more about your learning
    experience.

    Good Luck
    Jon



  8. #8
    Zane Thomas Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:01:21 -0500, "Jon Ogden" <jon@ogdenco.net> wrote:

    >I expect you'll be flamed by C-Geeks for saying that - in part because they
    >may be worried that you are right. They've all been taking great comfort in
    >the idea that they won't have to compete with VB any more.


    Right, C# makes it easy for C programmers to play on a level playing field
    with VB programmers. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?


    ---
    Ice Z - Straight Outta Redmond

  9. #9
    David A. Rothgery Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    Zane Thomas <zane@mabry.com> wrote:
    > On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:01:21 -0500, "Jon Ogden" <jon@ogdenco.net> wrote:
    >
    > >I expect you'll be flamed by C-Geeks for saying that - in part because they
    > >may be worried that you are right. They've all been taking great comfort in
    > >the idea that they won't have to compete with VB any more.

    >
    > Right, C# makes it easy for C programmers to play on a level playing field
    > with VB programmers. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?


    Nope.

    More viable programming languages are a Good Thing. I figure C# is fine
    for those with C++/Java backgrounds, and VB.NET is for the rest of us
    [1]...

    [1] Of course, there are those who, like me, spent enough time with C
    and C++ as an undergrad, and with VB since then, to decide that VB is
    much easier to work with...

    --
    Dave Rothgery
    Picking nits since 1976
    drothgery@myrealbox.com
    http://drothgery.editthispage.com

  10. #10
    Jon Ogden Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace


    "Zane Thomas" <zane@mabry.com> wrote in message
    news:3b015076.1034203453@news.devx.com...
    > On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:01:21 -0500, "Jon Ogden" <jon@ogdenco.net> wrote:
    >
    > >I expect you'll be flamed by C-Geeks for saying that - in part because

    they
    > >may be worried that you are right. They've all been taking great comfort

    in
    > >the idea that they won't have to compete with VB any more.

    >
    > Right, C# makes it easy for C programmers to play on a level playing field
    > with VB programmers. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?
    >


    Not at all, nor was it the point of my post. Nor could it be inferred from
    what I said. What I wrote about was the great joy C programmers have been
    expressing because they think the VB team cannot compete at all. I wonder
    if you might be attempting to respond to too many posts, in your valiant
    attempt to rebut any thing that smacks of criticism of .NET, MSFT or
    VB.NET, and as a result, aren't reading the posts you are replying to, very
    carefully.

    Good Luck,
    Jon



  11. #11
    Karl E. Peterson Guest

    Re: VB - May it rest in Peace

    Hi David --

    > I really like vb.NET, so I'm getting sick of its 'defenders' arguing
    > that it's harder to use than VB6, and that this is a good thing. That's
    > complete, unadulterated crap.


    Yeah, but it sure is funny as **** watching the lengths to which folks will
    rationalize! <LOL>

    Later... Karl
    --
    http://www.mvps.org/vb



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