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Thread: What do we need to know

  1. #1
    Richard Dalton . Guest

    What do we need to know



    Hi,

    This discussion group has been up and running for two months.
    I've certainly gotten a lot out of it. I think a fairly wide range
    of topics have been covered, although it's obvious that there is
    a strong bias towards VB/MTS/ADO/n-Tier type architectures.
    Nothing wrong with that, if that's what most of us are working with
    then that's what we should be discussing.

    One thing with Discussion groups though, is that great ideas can be
    lost. I was thinking of trying to pin down some of the "debates" and
    bring them together, possibly you might call it an FAQ. At least it
    would be something permanent that wouldn't get lost into the ether.
    It might be interesting to see a year or two from now what sort of
    consensus existed on the board, and what were the contentious issues.

    If anyone has any questions that they think need to be included
    in this sort of thing, you can post them on this thread.
    No answers for the moment.

    Any thoughts on this? Waste of time? Something you'd like to see?

    To start with here are a few questions.
    Feel free to add as many as you want. I'll sort through them
    and post a complete list when new suggestions dry up.
    Then we can worry about answers.

    1. What is Data Marshalling?
    2. Why is Data Marshalling necessary?
    3. What are my options for data Marshalling?
    4. What's a good way to build error handling into my architecture?
    5. What's a good way to handle data collisions?
    6. Do I need a physically distributed architecture?
    7. How do I Re-Use code on different apps, and has this worked in
    practice?

    OK, If this bombs, no problem,
    we'll just go on being master debaters. ;-)

    -Richard






  2. #2
    Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    <Richard Dalton .> wrote in message news:3a8b2d50$1@news.devx.com...

    > 1. What is Data Marshalling?
    > 2. Why is Data Marshalling necessary?
    > 3. What are my options for data Marshalling?


    3.5. What do I do when the Mark Williams Company's patent attorneys
    come knocking as a result of finding out I'm doing data marshalling
    in a platform-independent manner?

    > 4. What's a good way to build error handling into my architecture?
    > 5. What's a good way to handle data collisions?
    > 6. Do I need a physically distributed architecture?
    > 7. How do I Re-Use code on different apps, and has this worked in
    > practice?


    8. COM is dead and COM+ is bleeding. How should I cope?

    > OK, If this bombs, no problem,
    > we'll just go on being master debaters. ;-)


    --
    Joe Foster <mailto:jfoster@ricochet.net> Space Cooties! <http://www.xenu.net/>
    WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
    because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!



  3. #3
    Joe \Nuke Me Xemu\ Foster Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    <Richard Dalton .> wrote in message <news:3a8b2d50$1@news.devx.com>...

    > Hi,
    >
    > This discussion group has been up and running for two months.
    > I've certainly gotten a lot out of it. I think a fairly wide range
    > of topics have been covered, although it's obvious that there is
    > a strong bias towards VB/MTS/ADO/n-Tier type architectures.
    > Nothing wrong with that, if that's what most of us are working with
    > then that's what we should be discussing.


    Oh yeah, maybe <news://news.devx.com/3a89df9f@news.devx.com> would be
    a better fit here, but I'm unsure how to boil it down further. Maybe:
    Occasionally Connected Users: Threat or Menace?

    --
    Joe Foster <mailto:jfoster@ricochet.net> Got Thetans? <http://www.xenu.net/>
    WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
    because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!



  4. #4
    Dwight Funk Guest

    Re: What do we need to know


    How will MS.NET effect n-tier architecture ?
    Will the "Web Services" paradigm change things dramatically ?

    Loaded question, huh ?

    Has anyone done a critical review of .NET ?
    Should this get a thread of it's own ?

    Dwight Funk


    <Richard Dalton .> wrote in message news:3a8b2d50$1@news.devx.com...
    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > This discussion group has been up and running for two months.
    > I've certainly gotten a lot out of it. I think a fairly wide range
    > of topics have been covered, although it's obvious that there is
    > a strong bias towards VB/MTS/ADO/n-Tier type architectures.
    > Nothing wrong with that, if that's what most of us are working with
    > then that's what we should be discussing.
    >
    > One thing with Discussion groups though, is that great ideas can be
    > lost. I was thinking of trying to pin down some of the "debates" and
    > bring them together, possibly you might call it an FAQ. At least it
    > would be something permanent that wouldn't get lost into the ether.
    > It might be interesting to see a year or two from now what sort of
    > consensus existed on the board, and what were the contentious issues.
    >
    > If anyone has any questions that they think need to be included
    > in this sort of thing, you can post them on this thread.
    > No answers for the moment.
    >
    > Any thoughts on this? Waste of time? Something you'd like to see?
    >
    > To start with here are a few questions.
    > Feel free to add as many as you want. I'll sort through them
    > and post a complete list when new suggestions dry up.
    > Then we can worry about answers.
    >
    > 1. What is Data Marshalling?
    > 2. Why is Data Marshalling necessary?
    > 3. What are my options for data Marshalling?
    > 4. What's a good way to build error handling into my architecture?
    > 5. What's a good way to handle data collisions?
    > 6. Do I need a physically distributed architecture?
    > 7. How do I Re-Use code on different apps, and has this worked in
    > practice?
    >
    > OK, If this bombs, no problem,
    > we'll just go on being master debaters. ;-)
    >
    > -Richard
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >




  5. #5
    Jason Langston Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    Richard,
    I'm all for it. Kind of a community version of the architecture guidelines I
    attempt to write up here our 'in-house' use. I'd think Deborah K. would have
    some good input as well, since her site actually already does have the
    beginnings of something very similar.

    Some of my questions added below :

    <Richard Dalton .> wrote in message news:3a8b2d50$1@news.devx.com...
    <snip>
    >I was thinking of trying to pin down some of the "debates" and
    > bring them together, possibly you might call it an FAQ. At least it
    > would be something permanent that wouldn't get lost into the ether.
    > It might be interesting to see a year or two from now what sort of
    > consensus existed on the board, and what were the contentious issues.

    <snip>
    > To start with here are a few questions.
    > Feel free to add as many as you want. I'll sort through them
    > and post a complete list when new suggestions dry up.
    > Then we can worry about answers.
    >
    > 1. What is Data Marshalling?
    > 2. Why is Data Marshalling necessary?
    > 3. What are my options for data Marshalling?
    > 4. What's a good way to build error handling into my architecture?
    > 5. What's a good way to handle data collisions?
    > 6. Do I need a physically distributed architecture?
    > 7. How do I Re-Use code on different apps, and has this worked in
    > practice?


    8. Stored Procedures : To Use or Not To Use?
    9. What is MTS/COM+? Do I really need it?
    10. What are my alternatives to MTS/COM+? (I'm sure Darin will have much to
    say!)
    11. What are the goals of n-tier architecture?
    12. How does OOP fit into n-tier?
    13. What is the Data Access Layer for? What is a good way to implement it?



  6. #6
    Richard Dalton . Guest

    Re: What do we need to know


    Cool, this is good.
    In a few days we can see if we can break the list
    down into groups of related questions.

    I suppose if we are faced with lots of questions it might
    be daunting to start answering them, but I'm sure we'll be
    able to pick out the big ones.

    A lot of them have already been debated on this board and others,
    so some of the work is done.

    Keep posting questions.

    Here's a few more from me:

    1. Collection classes. What are my options?
    2. Object Hierarchies. How many levels of nesting is too much?
    3. UML. Where does that fit in?
    4. Is it possible to create a one type fits all architecture/framework?
    5. What's if any is the difference between an architecture and a
    framework?
    6. Windows DNA or whatever it's called this week is an Architecture.
    Why are we even discussing alternatives? Why not just use DNA?
    (or whatever it's called this week)
    7. Are there any special architectural considerations if I need/want
    to provide incremental delivery?
    8. What if any impact does my architecture have on my testing process?
    9. How to I avoid Analysis Paralysis.

    -Richard







  7. #7
    James T. Stanley Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    I think .NET-based architecture merits a whole new newsgroup.

    James

    "Dwight Funk" <dfunk@powerwayinc.com> wrote in message
    news:3a8bfafc@news.devx.com...
    >
    > How will MS.NET effect n-tier architecture ?
    > Will the "Web Services" paradigm change things dramatically ?
    >
    > Loaded question, huh ?
    >
    > Has anyone done a critical review of .NET ?
    > Should this get a thread of it's own ?
    >
    > Dwight Funk
    >
    >
    > <Richard Dalton .> wrote in message news:3a8b2d50$1@news.devx.com...
    > >
    > >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > This discussion group has been up and running for two months.
    > > I've certainly gotten a lot out of it. I think a fairly wide range
    > > of topics have been covered, although it's obvious that there is
    > > a strong bias towards VB/MTS/ADO/n-Tier type architectures.
    > > Nothing wrong with that, if that's what most of us are working with
    > > then that's what we should be discussing.
    > >
    > > One thing with Discussion groups though, is that great ideas can be
    > > lost. I was thinking of trying to pin down some of the "debates" and
    > > bring them together, possibly you might call it an FAQ. At least it
    > > would be something permanent that wouldn't get lost into the ether.
    > > It might be interesting to see a year or two from now what sort of
    > > consensus existed on the board, and what were the contentious issues.
    > >
    > > If anyone has any questions that they think need to be included
    > > in this sort of thing, you can post them on this thread.
    > > No answers for the moment.
    > >
    > > Any thoughts on this? Waste of time? Something you'd like to see?
    > >
    > > To start with here are a few questions.
    > > Feel free to add as many as you want. I'll sort through them
    > > and post a complete list when new suggestions dry up.
    > > Then we can worry about answers.
    > >
    > > 1. What is Data Marshalling?
    > > 2. Why is Data Marshalling necessary?
    > > 3. What are my options for data Marshalling?
    > > 4. What's a good way to build error handling into my architecture?
    > > 5. What's a good way to handle data collisions?
    > > 6. Do I need a physically distributed architecture?
    > > 7. How do I Re-Use code on different apps, and has this worked in
    > > practice?
    > >
    > > OK, If this bombs, no problem,
    > > we'll just go on being master debaters. ;-)
    > >
    > > -Richard
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >




  8. #8
    Jason Langston Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    Ah, in response to Jan N. you raised some interesting questions to add :

    1. n-tier vs. "traditional" client/server - why should I go to an n-tier
    architecture?
    2. Are there times I should stick to "traditional" 2-tier client/server?
    3. How do I weigh thick vs. thin client in an n-tier environment? (or does a
    thick/fat client have a place in n-tier architecture?)




  9. #9
    Guest

    Re: What do we need to know

    > 1. n-tier vs. "traditional" client/server - why should I go to an n-tier
    > architecture?


    Biggest reason is that you can scale out instead of just up.

    > 2. Are there times I should stick to "traditional" 2-tier client/server?


    Sure. It just depended on your percieved maximum load. 2 tier is simpler

    > 3. How do I weigh thick vs. thin client in an n-tier environment? (or does

    a
    > thick/fat client have a place in n-tier architecture?)


    If by THIN you mean web browser based and by THICK you mean traditional
    windows app, then yes, there's almost always a place for the THICK client.
    Graphic intensive stuff comes to mind right off. Thin certainly has it's
    place, too, esp with regard to customer interaction.



  10. #10
    Richard Dalton . Guest

    Re: What do we need to know



    OK, I've tried to bring together the questions suggested on this
    thread. I've also gone back over all the threads since the board
    started in December.

    I've posted a first attempt at a list of questions. I've also
    tried grouping them in some sort of logical way, but some of you
    might have better ideas.

    It's Longer than I'd expected. At least we won't run out of
    things to say.

    Obviously we don't want to lose the ability to ask questions that
    are immediately relevant to a problem we are having. That's what
    the board is for, but this might give us a way of capturing some
    if the points raised in a more permanent way. Stop us re-inventing
    the wheel. Also I think it will give people a feel for the problems
    BEFORE they launch into new technical areas, which can only be a good
    thing.

    So, you can get the list here:

    http://www.rdalton.com/ArchKB

    Luckily most of the Database questions have been pretty much covered
    here, as have some of the others. Still, a lot of work to answer
    all these questions.

    -Richard





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